vote no on 8!!!!!!

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mk420ae
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Postby mk420ae » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:17 pm

motorwerks wrote:So way back on about July 4th 1776 some guys got together and wrote a little paper. In that paper it states. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

How is it that in 2008 we are now trying to make folks unequal.

So we have also deemed it fair that a Man that likes men or a woman that like females can fight/die for our country, but they cant love one another and be "Married"?



You just shot yourself int he foot here, right next to all men are created equal and they are endowed by their creator, who do you think that creator was. This country was founded on biblical beliefs, if you dont think so then you are wrong. I am by no means a bible thumper to say that I am I would only be lieing to myself. The bible specifically states that homsexuality is a sin so do you think that with that in mind that our founding fathers honestly meant that a man could marry a man.

Seriously, I have nothing against gay peopls I worked for Nordstroms for 5 years and some of the nicest people I worked with were gay. But as I previously stated why would gays want a biblical title attached to their relationship thats pure blasphemy. Its not like youre losing any alienable rights, your still free to believe what you want, go where you want, say what you want, live where you want, and if you have a domestic partner they are covered through the domestic partnership laws.

Oh and if you think I should move to Utah if you agree with this maybe you should consider moving to MA.

Oh and to whomever decided to bring derogetory comments into this its not wanted, you only make yourself look like an even bigger tool then you already are
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Postby Turtlesgirl » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:20 pm

mk420ae wrote:Seriously, I have nothing against gay peopls I worked for Nordstroms for 5 years .....


:rofl: :funny: :rolf:

oh hell.... that's beautiful.
~amber

**New rule, effective immediately: When discussing porn, take smaller bites.

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Postby 00TURBO » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:25 pm

Turtle-Dude wrote:Amber's experiment was fine until this personal attack. I don't mind the debate, hell, I don't mind arguing the finer points of anything. But DO NOT resort to name calling or personal attacks in this house. NorCal VW is not the place for it, nor will it ever be. You mention the family atmosphere of NCVW yet with these two words you have immediately tarnished it. Not cool and not to be tolerated.

did you read the further posts or just that one?
00TURBO

BigFuchnJoak

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Postby UnNatural GTI » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:25 pm

I guess I still don't get why Marriage is a "biblical" thing. I bet thousands of people get married daily in the absence of a bible. And those marriages are valid. There wasn't a word pertaining to God/religion in my Ceremony at all. I wasn't even married by a priest. Its legal, I have the documents to show for it. All I'm saying is religion has nothing to do with this.


I like a little political debate every once in a while. You learn a lot about your "family" just as long as no one starts calling people names.

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Postby aggiepm » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:26 pm

mk420ae wrote:But as I previously stated why would gays want a biblical title attached to their relationship thats pure blasphemy.


taking away someones rights is still taking away someones rights. And NO ONE has answered my question yet, if marriage is in fact nothing more then a religions union, they why not remove marriage from non Christians?

And weather you like it or not "marriage" is in fact recognized by the state as a civil contract. The fact that they use the word marriage rather then civil union or something is a totally different argument. The fact of the matter is this will deny gay people the right to a government regulated institution and that is discrimination.

And if you think there is no difference would you get married in a church and then not register it with the state?
The Gays are going to turn tampons into rocket ships!

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Postby 00TURBO » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:41 pm

motorwerks wrote:Well not exactly because I do not necessarily believe in "Creator" but I do believe that we are all equal. I once checked the Bible out of the Library, it was in the Fiction section. In slightly less insulting words. I feel that it was written one way, and then through out the years it has been translated differently to fit the wants, needs and beliefs of the person, and or group that are or were translating it, at the time, and honestly i do not think it would even kind of reflect how "Creator" would see things, because I feel that he or she (who the hell knows) would and has created all things equal.

i didnt intend on replying to this thread again...
but x2^^^
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Postby zuhaelter_82 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:45 pm

i'm doing just fine in California thank you...
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Postby UnNatural GTI » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:03 pm

motorwerks wrote:My wife is pretty religious, and whats funny to me is that when her and I got married there was not one mention of god, but there was mention of the State of California!!!



All hail, the great State of California :rofl:

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Postby DeviantDub » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:05 pm

I like Veedubs :D :rofl:
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Postby Turtlesgirl » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:06 pm

DeviantDub wrote:I like Veedubs :D :rofl:


:allhail:
~amber



**New rule, effective immediately: When discussing porn, take smaller bites.



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Postby Turtlesgirl » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:29 pm

motorwerks wrote:I like Turtles


kiss ass... :p
~amber



**New rule, effective immediately: When discussing porn, take smaller bites.



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Postby zero2sixtyr35 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:32 pm

everyone is in titled to their opinion. as long as you vote what you believe in, s'all good. here's my .2 cents... i understand what mk420ae is trying to say. and i also understand the opposing view. we all live in a diversed society and have different understanding, concepts on the meaning of marriage and all men/ women created equal. as for me, i'm more old traditional/ conservative and i voted yes. :thumb:

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Postby sirchillybean » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:13 pm

separation of church and state.

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Postby 00TURBO » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:25 pm

vote yes on VDUB
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Postby DucMike » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:02 pm

Turtlesgirl wrote::allhail:

Idolater! (Look it up here). :rolleyes: Quick; stone her! :funny:

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Postby DucMike » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:12 pm

mk420ae wrote:Seriously, I have nothing against gay peopls I worked for Nordstroms for 5 years and some of the nicest people I worked with were gay.

Turtlesgirl wrote::rofl: :funny: :rolf:

oh hell.... that's beautiful.

I'm just curious whether anyone would be willing to look their gay friends in the eye & say that they were not entitled to the same thing they themselves were. As if any of these sign-carrying 'phobes would actually lower themselves to admit they actually have gay friends.

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Postby 5150 Cruiser » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:03 pm

Turtlesgirl wrote:hehe... thanks :) I like you man.. don't take off... i wasn't trying to run you off

on the 'this shouldn't be here comment'.... I have to say.. it's hard to say what political topics can be discussed here.. and what can't. I firmly believe that Norcal is a family friendly environment.. and I think that even this topic would be discussed around quite a few family dinner tables.. and having this topic discussed the little that it has been- is NOTHING to the national channels that are vomitting their high dollar adds for all kinds of crap during family prime time...

When I noticed that aggie posted.. i wanted to see if we were adult enough to have a discussion. I know this topic is sensitive to most.. and I actually understand and respect both sides of the coin on this one... that's why I was hoping to see us all have some healthy discussion.

:( I am sorry it is not working out that way.


Every automotive forum i visit (i frequent several) that have allowed Political threads/post have ended in insults, pissed off people,and put a real damper in thier respective comunnity. In a very short time frame you can see a very differnet side of somone that you normally wouldn't see, and quite frankly.. some Probbly never would not want to see.
Though this might be a discussion about prop 8, and some might think that all the coments will stay in this thread, if it gets heated enough (and its looking like it might) you'll end up seeing attitude spreading all over the boards. You don't want to ask a question and not get any help simpley because ones political views were different than yours.

I'm not in any way trying to mini mod (i'll leave that job to Amber and Rich thank you very much! :thumb: ), but just going from what i've witnessed on other automotive forums. Considering that Norcal is such a tight comunity (at least it was when i left :eyes: ) you don't want to give that up. Thank god that Election day is finnally here, and we can get all this put to rest. I'm tired of every other comercial being about the Presidential nominee's, one slandering the other, prop 8, renewable energy this and that, fork lifts ramming cows.... I'm done with it all.


.....with that said go Obama!!!! :baller:
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Postby zuhaelter_82 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:23 pm

i'm going to say this... just because someone voted yes on 8 dosen't mean i will think any different of them. that is their thing and no one should be holding a grudge because of someones personal beliefs. arguing about this prop is healthy as long as you can take it with a grain of salt and respect that everyone is intitled to their own opinion.
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Postby omllenado » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:51 pm

zuhaelter_82 wrote:i'm going to say this... just because someone voted yes on 8 dosen't mean i will think any different of them. that is their thing and no one should be holding a grudge because of someones personal beliefs. arguing about this prop is healthy as long as you can take it with a grain of salt and respect that everyone is intitled to their own opinion.


Very well said.

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Postby sirchillybean » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:32 pm

It's not just health care, it also concerns death benefits. I've recently had to deal with this. My father and mother in-law were never legally married, but had cohabited for over 15 years. There was one life insurance policy that was to go to the spouse in the event of the death of the benefit holder. Why wouldn't someone who is considered a spouse w/in the relationship not be eligible for death benefits in the event of the partner's passing? There is NO equal benefit under California law. What if a same sex couple had children together and the partner who had, say a pension, died. Because they are and CANNOT be considered a married couple, the partner's and child's stability can be in jeopardy. It hurts me to no end that people don't think of these things b/c this is what is really at stake here.

As Brooke stated earlier, the Bible is a distorted text. It is a collection of stories written in a time where racial, social, and economic survival were at the center of everyday transactions. It is an old cultural text that explains things in a way for a group of people to understand "phenomena" or otherwise unexplainable events. In my area of study we are dinged heavily if we take things out of cultural, connotative, and syntactical context, yet we are praised for doing it while practicing the scriptures or passages written in a text that has been re-written and edited over the course of several centuries.

No one has been able to answer this question: how will my heterosexual marriage be undermine by allowing people of the same sex to marry one another? How will is effect or undermine your heterosexual marriage by allowing people of the same sex to marry one another? Will it?

If 8 passes, marriage will become something that I no longer want to be a part of. I refuse to support an institution that promotes discrimination, especially on religious and gender basis. I cannot do it, how can you?

*Crap, I posted under Jack. This is Sarah.

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Postby BDF02M » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:58 am

In case anyone missed it:
Proposition 8: 3,044,558 (53%) "Yes" to 2,749,109 (47%) "No."
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Postby 00TURBO » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:05 am

YAY IT'S OVER!!!
/thread...
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Postby diz_gti » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:40 am

aggiepm wrote:Don't forget to vote people!!!! and vote no on 8, its an evil prop and needs to be defeated. Writing discrimination into the constitution in a country where everyone is free and equal is not OK.

ROCK THE VOTE!

i voted no so you can be happy scott......


tell you the truth i didnt vote anything,


but i say no on 8
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Postby zuhaelter_82 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:33 am

sad day for america/california... still we are taking the rights of people away. i thought we were above that
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Postby UnNatural GTI » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:48 am

zuhaelter_82 wrote:sad day for america/california... still we are taking the rights of people away. i thought we were above that



Exactly, regardless of what ever basis this prop is on. Their rights will be taken away. Rights as a human being...


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